That’s a quote from Albert Einstein. Here’s a thoughtful essay about Einstein and his religious views. From the essay:
“Although Einstein was not always consistent in what he said about God, there is a consistent theme running through his thoughts on religion—a theme that he called “cosmic religion”. He used this term to reflect the awe he felt when confronted with the universe and our ability to begin, at least, to comprehend it.”
February 16, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Faith is…
…not a leap in the dark nor a mystical experience nor an indefinable encounter with someone, but trust in One who has explained Himself in a Person–CHRIST, in a historical record–THE BIBLE.
“Be on your guard: stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.” I Corinthians 16:13
February 17, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Thanks, Mom. Is that a quote from somewhere, or are those your own thoughts?
February 17, 2007 at 8:47 pm
It’s a quote from a little book we received from Al and Glady Platt, Bobbie Friesen’s parents, for Christmas. It has been meaningful to them because they have taken care of their 50 year old handicapped daughter for all these years. Their family is beautiful to watch–no bitterness–just love.
It’s called FAITH IS…. by Pamela Reeve, a lady I heard at a women’s retreat at Pine Cove years ago during our Dallas days. Interesting to receive this now. It is very meaningful to me, and I hope it will be to you as well. Here’s another one:
Faith is…
…reliance on the certainty that God has a purpose for my life when everything seems meaningless.
“Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.”
~James 1: 2, 3
Love and prayers…Mom
February 18, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Thanks :)
February 19, 2007 at 1:41 pm
My favourite part-
–quote
Although Einstein was not always consistent in what he said about God, there is a consistent theme running through his thoughts on religion – a theme that he called “cosmic religion”. He used this term to reflect the awe he felt when confronted with the universe and our ability to begin, at least, to comprehend it. Writing in 1930, he saw hints of this cosmic religion in the Psalms and the Hebrew prophets, and more clearly in Buddhism. This cosmic religion, he wrote, “knows no dogma and no God conceived in man’s image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it”.
–end quote
February 19, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Thanks. Yes, Einstein often finds himself the unwitting subject of appeals to authority by Christian apologists, who may or may not know that his actual beliefs don’t resemble theirs at all.
February 19, 2007 at 2:26 pm
– quote
Thanks. Yes, Einstein often finds himself the unwitting subject of appeals to authority by Christian apologists
– end quote
He also was the the unwitting subject of appeals from the atheist community, which he abhored.
“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.” (Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 425)
Appeals to Einstein can only be taken so far that it is reasonable to believe there is a God. This is where the “authority” ends:
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. The deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.” (The Universe and Einstein, p. 109)
Oh, if more scientists were like him in both, able to grasp the obvious, and humility!
Einstein demonstrates that reason is limited (to wit he had in great excess). Reason is only able to take a person so far in getting to know God… and that for a God outside time-and-space to be known *personally* must reveal Himself.
Debateable perhaps, I believe Einstein made some effort, but some could say some organized religion got in the way?
The God Einstein was looking for has done that very thing, made Himself known in the man Jesus Christ – whom calls us to come and get to know him.
February 19, 2007 at 4:28 pm
The appeals to [anyone] can only be taken so far in that it is reasonable to believe that there is a God. The appeal to authority approach can only work when dealing with someone who actually reckons authority to the one being quoted.
I believe that it is entirely possible to use the appeal of authority pertaining to material issues like science, math, business models, etc…but all authority is lost in the light of the spiritual. At best the only authority on spiritual matters can be the individual who has experienced his own experience…and even then they are only an expert on their perceptions that they had.
God has seemingly “personally” made himself known to many people in many ways at many times…and yet many of the experiences differ from each other. Some have been in the “person of Jesus Christ” some have been in an LSD induced vision, some have been through sensory deprivation. Many have had not experience at all, though they have sought it with all of their energy.
Organized religion could have gotten in the way for Einstein, but then again I don’t know of a single religious system that is not organized on some level. Organization has the potential to lead to corruption. Isolation has the potential to lead to insanity.
The God that Einstein was looking for may have made himself known in the man Jesus Christ but even his own followers seem to have confusion as to who/what Jesus Christ is.
It is kind of like a show that I saw recently about psychic communication. The “spirit” supposedly has a higher frequency than humans do. So in order for communication to occur, the humans have to raise theirs and the spirit has to lower theirs in order to meet on level ground…but there can supposedly then be a lot that is lost in the transition.
Is God trying to lower his frequency and we are not raising ours which causes these disconnects in understanding?
In order to get to know Jesus better does he need an invitation to come over for tea and cookies?
We certainly need humility in light of all of the variations of experience.
Science without religion is certainly lame. I happen to be able to see the fractions of complexity even within my own mind and sphere of the world that I live in and [personally] must believe that something far bigger was behind it all than just chance. But then again, for a being that would be outside of both time and space, perhaps it is most blasphemous to try and explain such an entity with feeble words or ideas. Perhaps it is blasphemous to believe that such one would even stoop to communicate in such plain terms that we use. There should be a certain sense of awe. Perhaps it could at least be a respectful fear of the unknown.
But also religion without science is blind as well. Doesn’t the Bible mention unicorns? Doesn’t it say that the sun rises and sets? Doesn’t it say that mud could be used as a topical ointment for a blind man? Obviously there is also evidence of the miraculous as well as the need to interpret metaphor…but just look at the development in technology in the last 50-100 years. So many advances that really put the last century almost back in a cave. Fiction is born from the absence of answers.
February 19, 2007 at 11:26 pm
The Bible is filled with mysteries, with marvels and wonders that modern science still cannot explain. This ancient, sacred text invites each of us not to “solve” the mysteries it depicts, but rather to ponder them. The Bible challenges us to explore whether life is more than merely what we can see and feel, measure and quantify. We are faced with these questions every day. Few of us have not experienced our own moments of mystery, those circumstances that seem to whisper that there is more to life than meets the eye. The mysteries and stories, parables and events, prophecies and people that make up the Bible were gathered together to lead us on a search for God. And that search is intended to lead us into a relationship with God that will affect us authentically and profoundly. If we leave the mysteries of the Bible on the page where we’ve found them, we miss the point. These pages invite us to reach beyond ourselves and our world as we know it, to find a much deeper vision of reality. They invite us to acknowledge the possibility of a God who reaches back. If the Bible teaches us anything, it is that he will. Job 11: 7-9 says: “Can you understand the mysteries surrounding God All-Powerful? They are higher than the heavens and deeper than the grave. So what can you do when you know so little, and these mysteries outreach the earth and the ocean?”
February 19, 2007 at 11:54 pm
– quote (rp)
God has seemingly “personally” made himself known to
many people in many ways at many times…and yet many
of the experiences differ from each other. Some have
been in the “person of Jesus Christ” some have been
in an LSD induced vision, some have been through sensory
deprivation. Many have had not experience at all,
though they have sought it with all of their energy.
– end quote (rp)
Good choice of the word “seemingly”.
Who is Jesus? There is only one correct answer. (John 14:6 / John 8:58)
– quote (rp)
Doesn’t the Bible mention unicorns?
– end quote (rp)
Only in the King James. (Numbers 23:22; 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17; Job 39:9,10; Psalms 22:21; 29:6; 92:10; and Isaiah 34:7)
The Hebrew word is “re’em” which is correctly translated as “wild ox”.
– quote (rp)
Doesn’t it say that the sun rises and sets?
– end quote (rp)
You should call your local weather station and tell them to stop calling it “sunrise” and “sunset” or “sundown”
– quote (rp)
Doesn’t it say that mud could be used as a topical ointment for a blind man?
– end quote (rp)
Only in the hands of God on Earth.
– quote (rp)
So many advances that really put the last century almost back in a cave.
– end quote (rp)
Gosh, how did they build the pyramids or stonehenge, or etc. etc. etc…
There are things done in the past that make our heads spin too ya know.
– quote (rp)
Fiction is born from the absence of answers.
– end quote (rp)
And from ignoring facts. :)
February 20, 2007 at 11:51 am
OK Thor (which I’m curious what that is short for) this is starting to get personal with some of the jabs that you’re putting out there and I wanted to keep this objective. I also didn’t intend for us to take up the most space on this blog parrying back and forth. So I’ll respond quickly to your last statements and then we can move on to let this be about the original blogger’s intents and purposes.
About your response to the Jesus issue-
Again, depending on who you ask [even among Christians] you will get varying answers on who Jesus is- even according to the verses that you provided
About language-
1. The Unicorn- From Strong’s: probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known. [07214; variant of 07213]
2. Sunrise and Sunset- Obviously these terms have evolved into what is now our everyday speech because it now has the meaning that we have assigned to it with our current understanding; but no, no one is going to call the TV station or newspaper and tell them to stop using those terms because of their current meaning and association. BUT, you have to remember that not too long ago scientist were threatened to be killed by the Catholic Church because while they read the Bible literally in their day to say that the sun revolves around the earth, they would not put up with the scientists that found otherwise.
About Science-
1. Mud for sight- This is believable if you take a literal reading of the Gospels, which I know that you do.
2. Pyramids and Stonehenge- Of course those were gigantic feats for them back then. Of course they were capable of figuring out ways of engineering the magnificent. Those things were possible…and it would be amazing if anyone could ever officially validate the speculation of what truly happened at Atlantis if it ever existed. But now look at how today we can reattach limbs, we have computers that can control robots in a way that we wouldn’t need people to rebuild Stonehenge or the Pyramids; we can start a dead heart beating again with shots of adrenaline…etc. So in many ways, life today is much more superior in technology than it was in previous decades/centuries/millenia.
About Fiction-
What an over-generalization to say that fiction is born from ignoring facts. So is that usually the case with various aborigines who have not had contact with primitives? How can they ignore a fact that they might not know? Or what about a child who doesn’t know the answer to a question so they make up their own? Do they willingly ignore facts? No.
The point is that there are many beliefs throughout the world that have become known now as myths or legends that sustained various cultures for centuries; not because they ignored some facts, but because they simply didn’t have any scientific answers. That does not mean that science is the pinnacle of knowledge but it does mean that they just did the best they could with what little knowledge they had.
What about the ancient Hebrews who had earlier forms of Kabbalah who believed that you could find out if you had demons watching you by sprinkling the ashes of a burnt rooster around your bed at night and looking for little tracks in the ash in the morning. Did they believe that because the were ignoring facts? I doubt it; no scriptures had yet been written to address that issue so they did the best they guessed how.
Or what about the practice that led barbers to start “bleeding” people to cure various blood diseases? Did they do that because they ignored facts? No, the medical field had not yet discovered better ways of dealing with issues like that.
I could go on…but for the sake of space I will just stop there.
Please don’t think that I’m out to destroy everything that you have to say. This is good dialog, however, I must say that I am usually anticipating what you will say in response to my statements because you remind me a lot of…well….me about 5 years ago. Since then, I have come to agree with Einstein’s proposition that perhaps there is no such thing as free will. There seem to be predetermined paths for people to follow as they traverse through life that are often inescapable.
It is not my intent to put you or your particular brand of Christianity down. If you’ve been going at it for 22 years then perhaps that is indeed your path, and who am I to tell you [or anyone] that you can’t pursue a certain thing. What I do know, being an expert on my own experience [or even just perceived experience] is that no matter how hard I have tried to fight or counter it, I am no longer drawn to the same “Orthodox Evangelical” brand of Christianity that I once was. Now, a Calvinist would say that I was then never really “saved” to begin with…but that is just their side of the argument.
My point is that I don’t want this to become a personal thing and I’ve probably taken up more space on this blog than is necessary…so although I have not yet been reprimanded, I’m going to cut back a bit in my posting. But I wanted to convey that it wasn’t because I was conceding to your arguments, but rather because I’ve already been down that road and given all of the answers that you are giving back to me…but they just don’t work for me any longer.
So with all respect, let’s from now on, try and keep our comments focused only on the questions at hand as proposed by the author of the blog.
That means me too, keeping myself in check.
February 20, 2007 at 5:51 pm
– quote (rp)
OK Thor (which I’m curious what that is short for)
– end quote (rp)
It is not short for anything (I am asked that alot)
– quote (rp)
Again, depending on who you ask [even among Christians] you will get varying answers on who Jesus is- even according to the verses that you provided
– end quote (rp)
Fair enough. Sure, there are many holding the label of Christian and teaching a “so-called Jesus”. For example, the Mormons call themselves Christian and some of their core doctrines are from the pit of hell – including who they say Jesus is.
So I agree we need to be very clear and careful of who we call “Christian” (this can be quite complex since we can not see the human heart). In saying this, EVERYONE who is a Christian (as I understand it) agrees on who Jesus is. You see, this is plain in the Bible, and is one of the key essentials in true Christian faith.
Jesus asks everyone:
“who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15)
The fact it is a question means there is a right answer, and a wrong answer. For those who get the right answer, enter Heaven. For those who do not, well (Jesus said):
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matthew 7:21-23)
“For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:50)
“Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” (John 14:21)
So you see, knowing the correct Jesus is quite important.
– quote (rp)
1. The Unicorn-
2. Sunrise and Sunset-
– end quote (rp)
On #1, I have plenty of Hebrew references, from books to professors to friends. Only saying that the Bible does not affirm mythos (mythology) as you seemed to suggest.
On #2, the Bible does use the common language of the authors, which neither impacts its inerrancy nor truthfulness.
Helpful site: http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPNLrF&b=784441&ct=1247801
– quote (rp)
1. Mud for sight- This is believable if you take a literal reading of the Gospels, which I know that you do.
– end quote (rp)
Correct – Yes I do. The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are a completely reliable historical record of what happened, what was said, etc. In this case, Jesus took mud made from his spittle, and placed it on a man’s eyes, and he could see. (John 9) I do not see any problem with it. In the hands of any other man, it is mud. In the hands of Jesus – it was medicinal.
Did Jesus rise from the dead? Science says that type of thing can’t happen (especially if you consider the type of death Jesus suffered). Dead people do not rise from the dead (empirically speaking). But it did happen. So since Science says it can not happen, are we to conclude it did not happen?
Suffice to say (in context w/r to your 2/19 4:28pm post) there is no need to interpret as metaphor what is easily explained as literal.
– quote (rp)
What an over-generalization to say that fiction is born from ignoring facts.
– end quote (rp)
This is what I say : “absence of answers” AND “ignoring facts” .. ( I did use an “and” ) BOTH can produce fiction. Did not intend to say that “only ignoring facts” if that is how you took it.
– quote (rp)
Please don’t think that I’m out to destroy everything that you have to say.
– end quote (rp)
Not at all. Didn’t enter my mind as even a possibility
– quote (rp)
But I wanted to convey that it wasn’t because I was conceding to your arguments, but rather because I’ve already been down that road and given all of the answers that you are giving back to me…but they just don’t work for me any longer.
– end quote (rp)
I’m not sure what you held to before.
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” (Hebrew 13:8)
Truth does not change.. but we do.